Frawley and Castle: The Chew Toys!

FRAWLEY'S "COMPUTER EXPERT" FROM 2002 ADMITS FRAWLEY IS OUT OF HIS MIND

X-From_: bjarnasonk@post.uwstout.edu Thu Feb 7 12:44:17 2002
Delivered-To: slprokeys@mail.powweb.com
From: "Kris Bjarnason" <bjarnasonk@post.uwstout.edu>
To: "Steve Leigh" <steve at sl-prokeys dot com>
Subject: RE:
Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 14:48:30 -0600
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0)

I would appreciate it if you would leave me out of this. All I did was pull an IP number that was logged by our web board, I did nothing more, (like try to trace it or anything). The email you have posted on your web site by me I do not recall sending, but the proof is there, so I won't dispute it. I just don't recall ever emailing anyone at xyx@hotmail.com - that's all. [It's clearly stated that the woman asked me to remove her name-so I named her xxyyzz.] I just want to add that my future doesn't have anything to do with computer investigation, this is just a job to get my through college. If you want to

know anything else, I prefer you email me directly, and not Ed...

-Kris Bjarnason

X-From_: bjarnasonk@post.uwstout.edu Thu Feb 7 13:06:30 2002
Delivered-To: slprokeys@mail.powweb.com
From: "Kris Bjarnason" <bjarnasonk@post.uwstout.edu>
To: "Steve Leigh" <steve at sl-prokeys dot com>
Subject: RE:
Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 15:10:26 -0600
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0)

Look, I honestly don't remember who I sent that email to, or why. But I know if I would have ran the address through WHOIS, it would have shown AOL or something, which proves nothing... I know that. All I ask is I not be dragged into this because of that one email. In my opinion, I personally haven't done anything to you, (I wish I could remember who I sent that email to about the IP address), and I prefer you don't soil my name, even though you really aren't, but still... Anyway, this is no threat, if you don't take

my email off, I won't be doing anything about it... I just thought I would ask... If you decide not to, do you think you could at least reply to me and tell me who that was I emailed about the IP address, or why you are deciding to bring me into this?

Thanks, Kris

P.S. If it makes a difference, I will email that person back and apologize to them for saying that IP was you, and that there is no way I could prove it, nor do I want to... (I have no reason to). I am a college student, this is my job. That's all.

X-From_: bjarnasonk@post.uwstout.edu Thu Feb 7 13:27:53 2002
Delivered-To: slprokeys@mail.powweb.com
From: "Kris Bjarnason" <bjarnasonk@post.uwstout.edu>
To: "Steve Leigh" <steve at sl-prokeys dot com>
Subject: RE:
Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 15:32:07 -0600
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0)

By the way, you're right that my connection of your name and that IP address is ludicrous. I'm sorry. I don't know what I was thinking when I did that, (I must not have been)...

-Kris

X-From_: bjarnasonk@post.uwstout.edu Thu Feb 7 13:44:47 2002
Delivered-To: slprokeys@mail.powweb.com
From: "Kris Bjarnason" <bjarnasonk@post.uwstout.edu>
To: "Steve Leigh" <steve at sl-prokeys dot com>
Subject: RE:
Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 15:49:01 -0600
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0)

OK, I am going to risk a lot here, and I hope you don't post this and I hope even more that Ed doesn't see it. [Oh, he'll see it! But not for a long time.] I know how Ed is. [Doesn't everybody?] I graduate in May, and I am out of there. [There's a smart move.] I have been there 2 years, and for a college kid, it was a great job. I must say this, though: Since I never challenged him, I got along with Ed very well, and he has done a lot for me. BUT, that is because I understand his psyche, and never challenged him. I always treated him with respect, and he did the same in return. I have been looking at your site for the last hour, and now I do understand your site is for humoring purposes, and my stupid email probably earned me a spot on it. You're right, I should have stayed away from his problem, and besides that email to Kelly George, [That could be the person who asked that her name be removed.] I pretty much have. So, I won't worry about my spot on your site anymore. Just please have enough respect for me to keep these emails private, and I will respect you by not falsely accusing you again, and not having anything to do with this, (i.e. helping Ed "convict" you or whatever he's doing). If you do decide to show these to Ed or someone, can you warn me first? :) [I did much better - I waited 2.5 years to put these messages online.]

-Kris

X-From_: bjarnasonk@post.uwstout.edu Thu Feb 7 14:04:32 2002
Delivered-To: slprokeys@mail.powweb.com
From: "Kris Bjarnason" <bjarnasonk@post.uwstout.edu>
To: "Steve Leigh" <steve at sl-prokeys dot com>
Subject: RE:
Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 16:08:45 -0600
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0)

OK… You are probably right, I am naïve… Trust me, I haven’t stooped to his levels. I just do what I need to do to keep a job that I enjoy, and that’s building the web site and maintaining the computers. I do disagree with A LOT of his ways, (I don’t mean with dog training, because I don’t know anything about it, I just mean with the way he deals with some people). [It's common knowledge.] I have never lied for him, though, I am not sure what you mean by that. If I got served with a subpoena, I guess that would really suck. Don’t scare me like that! I guess the good thing is I am moving to Seattle in May… Not sure if that helps me or not J I realize now you do treat everyone with respect, so thanks for doing the same for me. Just please don’t assume I’m spineless, because if Ed ever did something to me, or made me do something I didn’t agree, with, I WOULD stand up for myself. It has just never came to that.

-Kris

THE DONOVAN ATTACK/CONNECTION

Delivered-To: slprokeys@mail.powweb.com
From: DonovanCanine@aol.com
Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 09:30:27 EDT
Subject: ED FRawley Threats
To: steve at sl-prokeys dot com
X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10512

Steve...Ed has been pushing me towards a lawsuit against him...........He continues to post UNTRUE allegations about DONOVAN K-9..........stating in black and white that Dominick is a convicted drug dealer.....NOT TRUE......he has also written unbelievably vulgar e mails to us with language straight off the Jerry Springer show..............Further more in those e mails he has threatened to illegally use NCIC to try and bring up Dom's record ....which would end up being extremely dissapointing to him...............He states that he has law enforcement friends who would be willing to do this..............IT IS AGAINST THE LAW TO USE NCIC TO JUST CHECK SOMEONE OUT [I'm aware of this: I asked my own cop friends to research Frawley's domestic violence charges.] >>>>>>>>>>Check out Bandog Banter and see what is going on???also check out the post on Ed's site ???If you can get on .we can not........he writes BS about people hindering there business and does not even have the balls to let them on his board to respond.............anyway thanks for listening if interested in any of his e mails or the facts call us201-745-3379...Jennifer

Delivered-To: slprokeys@mail.powweb.com
From: DonovanCanine@aol.com
Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 09:12:47 EDT
Subject: Re: ED FRawley Threats
To: steve at sl-prokeys dot com
X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10512

Hi Steve.............I am not really that worried about Frawley's accusations it is VERY obvious to me that he is a sick pup................But the nerve of him to right untruths to try and ruin someones reputation...........it is pathetic and insecure of him.........Dominick has been in the dog sport world for 30years........titled his first Sch.III that he bred ans trained himself at age 13...........So his reputation as a trainer is pretty well known...............You can vheck out our site if interested....www.donovank-9.com .............as far as the banter site..........you must go to the search engines and write in Bandog Banter you will see it there.....saying discussion board on bandogs............it does not come up in the address bar.........some of the post where deleted already to foul...............This is Ed's second time posting this crap all over the internet..............I will foward you a message from a board member of his and then one of his messages where he accuses us of stealing

his e mail addresses...it is nutty.............Just for a laugh...........Then I will probably post on your site ...........just want to discuss it with Domininck...........Thanks for your time..............Jenny

CAN YOU BELIEVE THIS? FRAWLEY'S EX-WIFE?

this has to be the best description of Frawley in the entire world!

X-From_: jeannev@wwt.net Fri Feb 14 20:54:35 2003
Delivered-To: slprokeys@mail.powweb.com
From: "Jeanne Frawley" <jeannev@wwt.net>
To: <steve at sl-prokeys dot com>
Subject: Ed Frawley
Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 23:04:22 -0600
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0)

Steve,

I stumbled onto your website and just had to email you to say, thanks for making me laugh tonight! Ed is my x-husband, [The whole world is on your side, Jeanne.] and you have him pegged to a T. [Are you surprised?] Your encounters with him and his outrageous accusations over conjured up crimes against him or his business is, as you can imagine, microscopic compared to what he has put me through since he jumped ship (17- year marriage) two years ago for Cindy Rhoades (pet name, sweet pee - I'm not kidding! p-e-e! At least neither one of them can spell). [No kidding!]

One of the roles I played while we were married was to stop him from being a knee-jerk asshole when he had determined, with no factual information whatsoever, that "someone" had done "something" that deserved his judgment, verbal abuse, punishment, etc. [He doesn't need facts. That's why it's so easy to dismember him here. But he sure needed you there to babysit him.]

Since I discovered his affair with Ms Rhoades in 2001, and subsequently filed for divorce, I have been accused of everything from shooting his best stud dog (for revenge, of course = because that's just the kind of person I am) to "stirring up the office employees and causing them to threaten to quit" to stealing all the money out of the Marshall Fund Account (which he later found intact but failed to acknowledge) . My best medicine for everything he has done and continues to try to pull, is laughing (although,

it took me some time to get to that point). Thanks again.

Jeanne Frawley (changing back to Voelk, my maiden name, soon).

X-From_: jeannev@wwt.net Sat Feb 15 06:25:22 2003
Delivered-To: slprokeys@mail.powweb.com
From: "Jeanne Frawley" <jeannev@wwt.net>
To: "Steve Leigh" <steve at sl-prokeys dot com>
Subject: RE: Ed Frawley
Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 08:35:14 -0600
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0)

Thanks for your reply, Steve. I will try and give you a call sometime soon - I am in the middle of a very grueling schedule with a new teaching position at the local university here (UW-Stout), and will be working all weekend to prepare for next week's lectures, tests etc.. That, and a thousand divorce (financial) details to take care of has me at my limit.

You'll never believe what Ed got away with in the settlement after a two-day trial last September. The judge took 4 months to reach her (yes, female) decision just this past week, and when she did, it all went Ed's way (she was the "other woman" in a divorce herself, so I guess she could relate to his "story". Either that, or he's sleeping with her too.). So, he moved out and left my son and me, and then 18 months and $69,000 in attorney fee's later, she gave him the house ($400,000), property (38 acres within the city limits), and the business (which, of course, he got an evaluator to show was nearly worthless). I got a whopping $200,000 and ONE year of maintenance at $1700 a month. In other words, the "no fault" divorce turns out to be "my fault".

Anyway, I'll give you a call when I can.

Jeanne Frawley

MORE, MORE, MORE

Envelope-to: steve at sl-prokeys dot com
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 18:04:16 -0800 (PST)
From: MISSE <tundrastevens@yahoo.com>
Subject: THANKS
To: steve at sl-prokeys dot com

Thanks for writing that about Ed Frawley I couldn't have laughed harder!! When I first came across his website I was excited being a GSD lover that I am!! I even ordered some of his products and e-mailed him once in a while then I was looking on his website and came across a first excited message that I had put on there and it royally pissed me off where he put it!! It was embaressing and what not since i had told all my friends about it!! So I e-mailed him and told him that and he said I am sorry but it was funny! Well

what was funny b/c I was happy?? Well after that I didn't write him anymore!! I think that he is a waste of skin SOB Well thanks again!! Melissa Stevens The worst thing is I was going to buy a dog from him then he bad mouthed mine and he thinks that if you don't own one of his dogs you are not worhty!! ASSHOLE!! Thanks again

Envelope-to: steve at sl-prokeys dot com
Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2003 14:23:57 -0800 (PST)
From: MISSE <tundrastevens@yahoo.com>
Subject: LOL LOL LOL
To: steve at sl-prokeys dot com

I like your website a lot Frawley has been a real ass to a lot of people! What got oyu and him going though I don't really understand about the round table?? Anyway I was going to ask you what Vidz Fer Kidz is I got it off your website and thought that I would ask ya! Also who are those others on there! I got kicked off german shepherd chat something b/c I was talking bad about him and the people on there think that he is god or something!! Is the one in Germany a real dick to or his he nicer?? Thanks again Melissa ed loves to make fun of people you have that right! is he still e-mailing you?? Misse

Reply-To: "Susie Q" <ultimatiek9@texoma.net>
From: "Susie Q" <ultimatek9@texoma.net>
To: <steve at sl-prokeys dot com>
Subject: Ed Frawley
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 16:23:07 -0500
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106

I just came across your e-mail fight with Mr. Ed....that's too funny...I just can't get over him..he's crazy..I can't believe the stuff on his web site...I sent him an e-mail a few days ago (I'll send you a copy if you are interested) I'm waiting for my cussing now!! LOL

Just thought I would send you a hello! Susie Texas!

From: "zzz" <zzz@zzzzzzzz.net>
To: <steve at sl-prokeys dot com>
Subject: Frawley
Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 20:46:42 -0500
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409

[This message was just made anonymous. Frawley apparently hassled and threatened the author who wrote this. It's obvious he's such a chickenshit, he's intimidated by Frawley and his terrorist tactics.]

Hi Steve

I ran across your website and I laughed my ass off. I was recently chastised on Frawleys discussion board for giving him shit about whoring Bernhard FLinks and making money off of his labor. Don't people wonder about and asshole like him that has an entire website that kicks his ass. Keep up the good work.

Delivered-To: steveleigh@mail05.powweb.com
From: Amatofma@aol.com
Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2004 15:19:11 EDT
Subject: LMAO- your website
To: steve at sl-prokeys dot com
X-Mailer: 7.0 for Windows sub 10712
X-Virus-Status: No

Just to give you another story, I am a member of the Leerburg site. I tried to post a message there about a Fred Hassen seminar our club was having this past March on a Friday afternoon. I had to go out of town to a trial that weekend and logged on that Monday. The message was gone and no reason was given. I saw Fred in March and he gave me the abridged version of what happened between the two of them. Now I finally see the entire picture. BTW, I emailed Frawley after the seminar and asked him what happened to my message. His response was that Hassen had no idea on how to train dogs and his information was not allowed on the website.
I appreciate all of the info. My eyes have definitely been opened. Frank Amato Blues City Schutzhund Club Memphis, TN

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From: "chris jones" <champk9@lycos.com>
To: steve at sl-prokeys dot com
Date: Fri, 09 Jul 2004 07:19:35 -0500
Subject: Website
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Hey Steve,

Just a little note from the other side of the world to say hi. I read your website (prokeys and Frawleys) and in summary - I laughed, I cried, I had a good time. First up I feel for you losing your wife, you both seemed to do so much in your life together that it made me feel boring. Good luck in your struggle to get over the hurt you must still hold. Secondly, man I havent laughed so hard in a long, long time. You cant buy humour that good!!!! I spent about 2 hours reading everything and have passed the addy onto all my friends.

I knew ed was a dick, but man, he is truley disturbing :) As for Uncle lou castle and Donny baby, they have to be a couple of bears if ive ever seen any. In closing good luck with everything and please keep the site up. It rocks. Regards CJ P.S. You still keep in with the dog people?

Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 16:52:37 -0400
From: Bev Lewis <congraph@attcanada.ca>
Reply-To: congraph@attcanada.ca
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 (Macintosh; U; PPC)
X-Accept-Language: en
To: steve at sl-prokeys dot com
Subject: My name is Bev Lewis

Hi:

I wrote you some time ago with regard to your website with some insights into a couple of characters. VooDoo of course was the most interesting since he beats me up on the net pretty frequently. If your ears have been ringing lately, it is because your name has been tossed about (not nicely by him and his crew of course) on another internet group when the website was brought forward for members to read. I thought I should introduce myself since I actually asked how to find you when the website info was posted and someone very kindly gave me your address - on list. Seems you are still a hot topic over there. Frankly better you than me. LOL Of course Mr Haggerty is being spoken of in a very nasty tone too. Nice to make your acquaintance.

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From: "Ronnie Weiss" <neverdull2u@msn.com>
To: <steve at sl-prokeys dot com>
Subject: Love the site bashing Ed Frawley
Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2003 19:11:42 -0600
X-Mailer: MSN Explorer 7.02.0011.2700
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 30 Nov 2003 23:42:24.0292 (UTC) FILETIME=[9AE37E40:01C3B79B]

What a piece of shit. Someone should go back in time and put a condom on Ed's father doing the dog training world a favor. His girl friend was in our club and for some reason we allowed him to film a couple dogs in training. Now after a falling out with his girlfriend those clips have shown up on his new video. Everything happening in training was taken out of context and distorted. Ed explanation for what he did was because of his not being allowed to come to our trial. Because of his confrontation with a club member. After quitting the club his girlfriend told me I had know idea where this would lead. Sad how one man can get away with taking video clip and distorting it for profit. A time machine and a condom is all I need!! I'm sure even his mother would approve..

Ronnie Weiss
Von de Sleghte Bruute
http://caninetrainingconcepts.50megs.com/
Great Spirits have always Encountered Violent Opposition from Mediocre Minds.

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Date: Sat, 06 Dec 2003 20:37:32 -0800
To: steve at sl-prokeys dot com
From: Hermine <hxxxxxxx@zzzzzzzzzzzzzz.com> [author requested email address removed]
Subject: GREETINGS, fellow earth citizen!

I ran into louie castle on a list about aggressive dogs, and i must say, your analysis of him is SPOT ON! but he is seeming totally without shame, and despite exposes without END, he is still going, like that awful pink battery powered bunny. i was delighted to see that you refer to list bitches, we call them LIST HAGS and actually have a list called xxxxxxxxxxxx in which such verbage is kidnapped and posted for our snacking pleasure. recently our old HAG QUEEN was dethroned, and Louie was installed in her place.

Nobody in the real world of the vicinity of Louie has heard of him. i mean, actual people with real dogs who train and show them.

Louie does enhance my fear of cops.

i accused him of having munchausens' syndrome and he denied it, so i accused him of faking having munschausens syndrome.

his list of injuries is staggering!

hxxxxxx sxxxxx

S. CA

From: "White Coat" <white_coat@bigfoot.com>
To: <steve at sl-prokeys dot com>
Subject: Dogchat Forum
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 20:52:11 +0100
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158

Hi Steve,

Came across your site following some comments made on www.dogchat.co.uk regarding voodoo Louie. Gosh what an eye opener of a site you have there.

I've noticed that since the comments were made old uncle Lou has browsed the forum but not responded or commented on any of the threads. Well we'll wait and see what he does next.

Steve, I would like to seek your permission to post the page referring to 'the internet expert page - how internet experts are born' as is in its entirety on one of the topics on www.dogchat.co.uk .

I trust you will agree to my request, in the mean time thank you for a very informative site.

Kind regards Chas

X-From_: sheltie1@ix.netcom.com Fri Nov 8 19:54:49 2002
Delivered-To: slprokeys@mail.powweb.com
X-Sender: sheltie1@popd.ix.netcom.com
Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 22:06:47 -0600
To: steve at sl-prokeys dot com
From: sheltie1@ix.netcom.com
Subject: dog trainers exposé page

Hi Steve,

I just want to tell you how incredibly grateful I am for finding your dog trainers page! I made the mistake of arguing with Lou Castle on Mn-dog-lovers@yahoogroups and MnDogscene@yahoogroups.com... by the time he moved to dog_aggression@yahoogroups I was so fed up with his circular arguments and outrageous claims that I bit my tongue. Its nice to know I'm not the only sane one online that can see through this guy's hot air and doubletalk. If you want to clip anything that was said between me and lou out and use it on your page, feel free!

Thanks a million,

-Lindy Martin

sheltie1@ix.netcom.com

(also known as LMM / pitbull@doglover.com)

X-From_: td@neo.rr.com Sat Nov 30 21:24:26 2002
Delivered-To: slprokeys@mail.powweb.com
From: "Kristen" <td@neo.rr.com>
To: <steve at sl-prokeys dot com>
Subject:
Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 00:24:21 -0500
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000

I just read most of your page and it's GREAT. It's unbelievable the arrogance he shows. I would like to know the margin in his loss to become Sheriff. It's people like him who have driven people away from working dogs. Keep on the good work...from what I hear everyone LOVES your site. I tell everyone I can find.

X-From_: steve@ukk9.com Sun Dec 29 04:59:08 2002
Delivered-To: slprokeys@mail.powweb.com
Reply-To: "Steve" <steve@ukk9.com>
From: "Steve" <steve@ukk9.com>
To: <steve at sl-prokeys dot com>
Subject: Lou Castle
Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2002 12:58:58 -0000
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000

Steve

My name is Steve Dean and I am a Police Officer with the Metropolitan Police, London, England. I am a full time police dog training instructor and the officer in charge of our breeding programme and puppy training programme. I have been with the canine unit non stop since 1981 and I hold the UK's highest Instructional certification issued by the British Government under the direction of the Association of Chief Police Officers.

I just wanted to say that your web page, and especially the bit about "Uncle Lou" or Lou Castle has been the most entertaining mornings activity that I have had in a long long time. Excellent effort and well done.

I have had several run in's with Lou over the years and he has recently been placed back onto a list (the bpsca - British Police & Service Canine Association - list) that I am on and already he has started to tell everyone that my standards are miles apart from his etc. This time though he is unaware that I am the administrator of the list.

This latest incident arises from a discussion based on puppy .v. adult. Obviously as a breeding manager I am in favour of a breeding programme and puppy training. Lou rubbishes pups out of hand, though what experience he has with raising police puppies I have no idea. below is a short resume of his response to my response disagreeing with him:

************************************************

Steve: Experience shows that it is possible to select pups with the correct temperament and drives and nurture and build on them at the same time as making sure that the dog is given the correct environmental stimulus to ensure a sound prospect for police work.

Lou: If you're doing it without fail, you're the only one in the world to accomplish this. Since you'll probably admit that you fail occasionally, you've just wasted a couple of years of time, dog food and vet bills.

Steve: A puppy is not a Complete unknown. There is the breeding, including older siblings, the parents themselves and the puppy itself to look at and assess.

Lou: Again, if you're doing this perfectly, you're the only one in the world to have accomplished it.

Steve: There are good pups, bad pups and outstanding pups and with skill and experience it is possible to pick the right puppy and mould it into a service dog with minimal risk.

Lou: "Minimal risk" is still risk. When I go looking for a dog for police work or PP I'll take a look at dozens, sometimes hundreds, of dogs that have been selected for police work. A friend took six months to find a suitable dog for a department he was selecting for.
It's obvious that our standards for what makes a good police dog are miles apart.

Steve: I agree that there is no guarantee, but then again, there is none with an adult. I have seen very promising young dogs go through training with flying colours only to find that they don't have what it takes to do the job for real. I would prefer to raise a pup myself rather than leave it to someone else to do.

Lou: I've found that less than .01% of puppies from GOOD breedings have what it takes to make a good police or PP dog. Using my stake out test (you can see it on Dr. P's website at)
http://www.uwsp.edu/psych/dog/LA/castle1.htm
I've selected dozens of dogs and never had one of the flunk out of training or fail to properly respond on their first deployment.

Steve: Sometimes with adult dogs, the problems don't manifest themselves during training. Its the pressure of actually being operational that causes them to be exposed. By this time its too late, the dog has let the handler down.

Lou: I don't care whether a problem pops up during the initial training or when operational. If the drives are there, it can be trained around. You can raise a puppy perfectly, do everything right and then something you haven't planned for can ruin all your work in a second. A loud auto accident that happens in front of your house during the puppy's fear period is just one example. Once a dog is mature there's much less chance for this to occur.

**************************************************

Keep up the good work, your web page was just what I was looking for, I have been after some detailed info on Lou to use against him when he starts his antics again, only this time I will go public with it and publish the link to your web page if you have no objections.

In payment for the entertainment value of your page, if there is anything you want from the UK and it is within my power to get it for you, then let me know mate, and its yours (Rolls Royce excluded).

Steve Dean
Advanced K9 Instructor &
Breeding Manager
Metropolitan Police
London, England.

X-From_: KEVINBRICE1@aol.com Sun Dec 29 11:45:10 2002
Delivered-To: slprokeys@mail.powweb.com
From: KEVINBRICE1@aol.com
Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2002 14:44:57 EST
Subject: Uncle Lou,or is it Voodoo Lou???
To: steve at sl-prokeys dot com
X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows UK sub 10502

Brilliant Steve.Confirms everything we've heard from off of this idiot! Surely it's time for him to be placed in a straight jacket & tossed into a lunatic asylum! Perhaps not coz he's value for money :-)) At least I know I've got some ability compared to this 'wannabe'.
Good laugh on your pages---I thought I was going to wet myself I couldn't stop laughing.
Well done mate.

X-From_: steve@ukk9.com Sun Dec 29 22:23:32 2002
Delivered-To: slprokeys@mail.powweb.com
Reply-To: "Steve" <steve@ukk9.com>
From: "Steve" <steve@ukk9.com>
To: <steve at sl-prokeys dot com>
Subject: Uncle lou gets louder
Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 06:23:32 -0000
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000

Steve further to my first e-mail, seems I have upset Lou. This is the e-mail he sent me in response to my mail telling him I was going to have him thrown of the bpsca list. He thinks your a nut :o) He is in Red. I haven't yet had time to reply - but I will

Take now

Steve Dean

England.

I am an administrator of this list and I will be taking issue with David the dogman regarding the fact that your membership was not first discussed with me.

I wasn't aware that you were an administrator of the list, not that it makes any difference. I also wasn't aware that David needed your permission to add someone to the list.

In regard to your posts as usual you have an antagonistic approach when replying, are as usual totally opinionated and can never afford anyone else credibility for being experienced in the service dog training arena.

Steve you're the one who took my completly impersonal statements as a personal attack. No matter how much experience anyone has in the dog training arena, they don't have all the answers. I'm allowed to have an opinion. So are others. I'll never understand why you take such offense at being questioned by someone with a contrary opinion.

You manage to make everything personal as with your comment regarding standards, its quite obvious to anyone reading it what you are implying so please don't insult the membership by trying to say otherwise.

You seem to be the only one who's insulted. You seem to be the only one who's taking anything personal. I was quite clear in my last post to the list that NOTHING was intended to be a personal attack. I said it several times.

You manage to twist words and statements so that they appear to represent something they did not such as your phrase "Let's remember that you started this topic with a statement to the effect that your method was better".

In the first post on this topic that I responded to, you wrote, "In regard to the issue of young adult .vs.. puppy. I would opt for a good pup every time." This seems to me to be stating very strongly that you think that your method is better than any other. Did you mean something else?

And you later wrote, "I will never be convinced that taking on someone elses part trained dog that they are selling because it doesn't represent what they want (why else would they sell it) is better than selecting a pup from well bred parents that have proven capabilities." Seems to me that you think it's the better way. Don't you say here that you won't be convinced that (another method) is better? Doesn't that mean that you think that your method is superior? Or did I miss a meaning?

Why is it wrong that I, and others, have a differing opinion? Why can't you handle being disagreed with? You stated your opinion and I countered with mine. You replied, expanding on your ideas and commenting on my reply and I did the same. Isn't that what these lists are for?

I have a copy of all of my mails and at no time have I said that, simply that as a person responsible for a large scale breeding programme I prefer a pup to an young adult

And I've simply stated that I have a different opinion and I've given the supporting reasons for it. Why you feel that's a personal attack is beyond my comprehension. Particularly since I said TWICE that no personal attack was intended.

I have recently been made aware of the web site at http://home.tampabay.rr.com/steveleigh/indexmenu.htm and its fair to say that you have the knack of upsetting a great number of people and disrupting various mailing lists.

I've been aware of it for quite some time. Mr. Leigh is an obsessed lunatic. Anyone with a critical mind can see that his website makes a bigger statement about him than about me or the others he's got there.

Yep I do have a knack for upsetting people. But Mr. Leigh has been kicked off a lot more lists than I have. Mr. Leigh and I clashed on a list about a couple of topics. In every one of our debates I proved him wrong time and time again. He doesn't comtribute to any lists that I'm on now, except to post the link to his website. He's tired of getting proved to be wrong so many times that he had to set up his website where he can say whatever nonsense he wants without contradiction.

I asked that you mailed me privately, you decided to ignore my request and continue on list. If this matter is brought up again on list I shall respond by posting the above hyperlink which to be honest, makes you a complete laughing stock and destroys any credibility you think you have.

It figures that you'd think that there's any credibility at all to Mr. Leigh or his website. You can post whatever you like wherever you like, I don't care. I will just show your unprofessionalism, your lack of a willingness to debate and what a small person you are. And I'll tell everyone the truth.

I now know you for what you are, loud, uncouth with very little to back up your claims. I am aware of the discrepancies in the amount of time you allegedly trained your departments dogs, was it 15, 20 or about 25 years? I am aware of your own departments attitude towards you as a "dog trainer". Just because I am in England, don't think you can get away with all the bullshit that you have given out for so many years. I have good contacts in many places and will not hesitate to use them to expose you if continue to cause grief.

You're the only one that thinks I'm causing any grief on the list Steve. And that's because I dared to have an opposite opinion than yours. As I said before, do what you want, I don't care. I've done 16 seminars and workshops on dog training in 15 cities and two foreign countries (one of them the UK). I have several more calendared for next year.

Do yourself a favour, leave the bpsca list before I contact David and have you removed, because that is exactly what I intend to do.

If David wants to remove me he can. He asked me to come back, I didn't ask him. I won't leave the list, I see no reason to do so. Again, you can post whatever you want. Posting the link to Mr. Leigh's site will say more about you than about me.

Oh by the way, this is my e-mail and I can do as I please with it, and I intend to post it to the Expert Dog Trainers Opinion Board.

Never heard of it. Perhaps you can supply a link. Your threat is typical of a small person. You can't handle the debate so you want me removed from the list. Every one of your statements is full of holes that I've already pointed out. Posting my comments elsewhere is exactly what I'd expect from you. I can always tell when I've won a disagreement. My opponents resort to threats and name calling.

Take care Steve, Lou

X-From_: dhare@d220.freeserve.co.uk Mon Dec 30 04:42:21 2002
Delivered-To: slprokeys@mail.powweb.com
From: "Derryl" <dhare@d220.freeserve.co.uk>
To: <steve at sl-prokeys dot com>
Subject: Thank You
Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 12:42:13 -0000
Organization: free24-7.net
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 30 Dec 2002 12:45:47.0031 (UTC) FILETIME=[5FE84A70:01C2B001]

I have just read your web site and I am delighted with it. I have done battle with Lou for years. He is rude and ignorant and abusive. He was on several UK lists and was presented to us and the head of the New York dog training unit. Something he obviously wasn't but something he never contradicted either. Lots of us tried to find out where he worked - what force - how many dogs etc. But we never got any response from him! I got into a raging battle with him when I first came on the net (I am female btw so found his remarks and the conflict I had with him very distressing and disturbing). I had joined my first ever email list and mentioned that I used clicker training. The abuse I got from him was something I had never experienced before. I soon learned to grow up and do battle with him ....... he wasn't going to frighten me off that easily LOL I had many personal emails - always abusive. He was finally kicked off the list ...... but lo and behold he has just come back on again. He is still claiming to be an expert and has just sent us a copy of his steak out test. It is a UK police list so I hope no one is taken in by him.

Thank you for exposing him :-) Derryl

X-From_: Steve@jakubecz.com Sun Feb 2 21:04:36 2003
Delivered-To: slprokeys@mail.powweb.com
Subject: FW: Shy dog
Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 00:04:25 -0500
X-MS-Has-Attach:
Priority: normal
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
Thread-Topic: Shy dog
Thread-Index: AcLKwUKvASe0fbSpTJS/1vqCzy+2HQAeJl1w
From: "Steve Jakubecz" <Steve@privatejakubecz.com>
To: <steve at sl-prokeys dot com>

Dear Mr. Leigh,

The series of emails below are an account of my first contact with Ed Frawley. His responses are that of someone who needs some serious medication to control his anger. After receiving these insulting responses to an honest request for help I did some Internet research on Mr Frawley which led me to your site (GREAT site by the way…Seems to hit this guy dead on!). Did Mr. Frawley care to know that my dogs are trained in basic obedience and generally are very well behaved…NOOOOO, he just wanted to pass judgment on me and, attempt, to bully and belittle me (in retrospect, I may have made the behavior issue sound worse than it really is, but again, he does not care to muck about with the facts of a situation). This guy must have honed his skills as a high school bully, but, like all bullies, their tactics do not work on everyone. My wife and I were laughing at his inane responses! This guy is so immature it’s completely laughable…and, of course, there are typos in his emails…LOL. There is no sense writing back to him because I could script his responses myself from here on out (other than the fact that I seem to bother him more than he bothers me J)

I am going to forward this string of emails out to a list of people and I am wondering if you have any recommendations of individuals I might include? Perhaps any complaint departments or board members of any canine clubs that may be associated with Mr. Frawley? At the very least I am sending it to the board and judges of the German Shepherd Dog Club of America – Working Dog Association and the United Schutzhund Clubs of America, along with the employees that are listed on his website, additionally I am going to post them to some public message boards. I also considered posting this to his message board, but the post will undoubtedly be deleted as soon as it is posted as Mr. Frawley cannot have such truth on HIS boards (I noticed that his demeanor is greatly different in personal emails than it is on his message board…The dudes like Jekyll and Hyde). Plus, If I post to his boards I would have to register (funny how he has this elaborate registration process to keep truths like this off of his board), but then he would have my IP address “logged”…egad!. I just want to, further, get the word out that this guy is a foul-mouthed imbecile (from my research thus far, MANY people are already of this opinion).

Thanks for your website, and kudos to you for keeping it up! BTW, my daughter is taking piano lessons, perhaps you could give her some pointers…LOL.

Regards,

Steve Jakubecz

X-Sender: isabel@128.242.76.244 (Unverified)
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.1.1
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 23:45:03 -0800
To: Dog_Aggression@yahoogroups.com, <Dog_Aggression@yahoogroups.com>
From: Big Herm <hermine@endangeredspecies.com>
Subject: Re: [Dog_Aggression] Yet Another Private email from trey
Cc: "Steve Leigh" <steve at sl-prokeys dot com>

At 03:57 PM 12/22/2003, Captain Haggerty wrote:

Cap writes:

I'd say that Steve Leigh only filled HALF HIS WEB SITE. Lou filled the other half and will not let it die. $50,000? Don't you know ANY OTHER lawyers? In your line of work you should have an idea who to get. The State of California will pay about 100 K for a lawyer to handle a murder case. I guess it is twice as hard to get a murder off as it would be for Lou to get Steve Leigh.

CAPTAIN HAGGERTY

steve is in danger of being sued for Felony Quoting!

hermine

THINK THIS IS ALL OF IT?

THERE'S A MOUNTAIN STILL WAITING FOR CUT 'N PASTE.

Isn't it amazing that I'm the lunatic, I'm "obsessed", I'm making all this up,

and the letters are coming in by the hundreds, from total strangers?

meanwhile .... click